G
Gene E. Bloch
Perhaps you can have a friend translate Peter H. Coffin's post into
your native language so you can understand what he said. Then maybe you
can give a revised answer that is actually responsive to his remark.
Perhaps you can have a friend translate Peter H. Coffin's post into
your native language so you can understand what he said. Then maybe you
can give a revised answer that is actually responsive to his remark.
U
Unquestionably Confused
Now, Gene...
That's just Joel. I've seen enough of his posts and minced words with
him often enough to realize that if ignorance is truly bliss, he's
likely the happiest man on the face of the earth. And, to no one's
surprise, he probably doesn't even realize it.
G
Gene E. Bloch
I reply to his posts extremely rarely, but this post bugged me much
more than usual by its lack of comprehension and by its hostility.
But your comments on his happiness were great fun
L
Lon
A fairly typical bogus justification statement for what is really just
theft.
L
Lon
This will probably come as a big shock to the thousands of malware
authors and script kiddies out there still running around free as a
breeze. Do you have ANY idea whatsoever what a virus is, laws regarding
viruses, the number of them out running around in the wild, and the
miniscule number of prosecutions?
I think you have no clue what you are talking about, technically or
legally.
E
Ed Pawlowski
NA said:
Got it. Thanks.
A
Andrew
MLD wrote:
:: ::: MLD wrote:
::::: Have seen a number of sites where you can download "unlocked"
::::: Garmin map updates (free). 2012 North American, for example, is
::::: available on many of these sites. Has anyone got any experience
::::: using any of these locations and updating from any of them?
::::: MLD
:::
::: I hope I am not reading your post wrong.
:::
::: I just recently bought a new Lifetime map unit from Garmin to avoid
::: paying fees for their maps.
:::
::: If you can afford the unit, pay Garmin the money for the maps and
::: stop stealing. It's situations like this that make manufacturers
::: put in onerous locking mechanisms that affect the vast majority of
::: us that pay for fair intellectual property.
"Should one pay for new maps in order to get POI's? Do you consider this
stealing from
Garmin?"
Of course it is. Read some of the other posts I've made in the last few
months in this NG and you'll see I mentioned precisely this is why I got a
new unit; it's not so much the maps that get out of date, it's the POIs that
I find change much more often, and thusly, I got an unit that has lifetime
map updates mainly because of this POI issue.
::: --
::: -------------------------------------------------------------
::: Regards -
:::
::: - Andrew
:: Andrew
:: I'm only the messenger--haven't stolen anything! Garmin, however,
:: encourages this type of activity because they are somewhat greedy in
:: the way they charge for their products. Case in point: My unit's
:: battery went South; would no longer hold a charge. Garmin wanted a
:: flat fee of $79 to service the unit knowing that it was only the
:: battery that needed replacement. I found a suitable replacement
:: (BatteryShip.com) for $20 and it also came with the
:: tools/instructions to accomplish the changeover. Took me about
:: 15-20 minutes and the unit was like new again. Obviously, they want
:: you to throw out the unit and purchase another one.
:: What about the sites like POI Factory? You can get POI's for just
:: about anything there , all available to download to your unit.
:: Should one pay for new maps in order to get POI's? Do you consider
:: this stealing from Garmin? MLD
:: ::: MLD wrote:
::::: Have seen a number of sites where you can download "unlocked"
::::: Garmin map updates (free). 2012 North American, for example, is
::::: available on many of these sites. Has anyone got any experience
::::: using any of these locations and updating from any of them?
::::: MLD
:::
::: I hope I am not reading your post wrong.
:::
::: I just recently bought a new Lifetime map unit from Garmin to avoid
::: paying fees for their maps.
:::
::: If you can afford the unit, pay Garmin the money for the maps and
::: stop stealing. It's situations like this that make manufacturers
::: put in onerous locking mechanisms that affect the vast majority of
::: us that pay for fair intellectual property.
"Should one pay for new maps in order to get POI's? Do you consider this
stealing from
Garmin?"
Of course it is. Read some of the other posts I've made in the last few
months in this NG and you'll see I mentioned precisely this is why I got a
new unit; it's not so much the maps that get out of date, it's the POIs that
I find change much more often, and thusly, I got an unit that has lifetime
map updates mainly because of this POI issue.
::: --
::: -------------------------------------------------------------
::: Regards -
:::
::: - Andrew
:: Andrew
:: I'm only the messenger--haven't stolen anything! Garmin, however,
:: encourages this type of activity because they are somewhat greedy in
:: the way they charge for their products. Case in point: My unit's
:: battery went South; would no longer hold a charge. Garmin wanted a
:: flat fee of $79 to service the unit knowing that it was only the
:: battery that needed replacement. I found a suitable replacement
:: (BatteryShip.com) for $20 and it also came with the
:: tools/instructions to accomplish the changeover. Took me about
:: 15-20 minutes and the unit was like new again. Obviously, they want
:: you to throw out the unit and purchase another one.
:: What about the sites like POI Factory? You can get POI's for just
:: about anything there , all available to download to your unit.
:: Should one pay for new maps in order to get POI's? Do you consider
:: this stealing from Garmin? MLD
D
Dave
<pedant mode>
Here in the UK, it would be copyright infringement, not "stealing" or
theft. Neither would it be "piracy".
</pedant mode>
S
Sunshine
I wasn't aware that Garmin sold POI updates separately from map
updates. Regardless, POI's are available from other sources besides
Garmin. Your logic seems akin to being called a thief at Walmart
because you dared to go to Target.
M
MLD
Sunshine said:
Sunshine-----you're a man (or girl) after my own heart. I think that you
hit the nail on the head. As you noted, POI's are available all over the
place--one good source is at
http://www.poi-factory.com/
Absolutely nothing wrong with using any of these files to supplement what is
already factory loaded in your unit. In my case I loaded the POI files
containing all "AAA offices and Toyota Dealers" in the country into my
Unit. In fact, Garmin supports this activity by providing the means ((POI
Uploaded software) to upload these POI's into your unit. Some people try so
hard to be self righteous that they can't see the forest because of the
trees. It's the "mouth in gear and brain in neutral" syndrome.
Per Andrew's mind set--apparently it was wrong--stealing, infringement--you
name it--- when I replaced my battery with a non OEM part purchased at
another vendor rather than getting hosed by Garmin ( Wal-Mart/Target
example). Would he pay the $79 (and get gouged), buy another unit instead
(almost halfway there anyway) or go the $20 route and buy a replacement and
install it himself? Please enlighten us Andrew.
MLD
A
Andrew
MLD wrote:
:: :::
:::: "Should one pay for new maps in order to get POI's? Do you
:::: consider this stealing from
:::: Garmin?"
::::
:::: Of course it is.
:::
::: I wasn't aware that Garmin sold POI updates separately from map
::: updates. Regardless, POI's are available from other sources besides
::: Garmin. Your logic seems akin to being called a thief at Walmart
::: because you dared to go to Target.
:::
::
:: Sunshine-----you're a man (or girl) after my own heart. I think
:: that you hit the nail on the head. As you noted, POI's are
:: available all over the place--one good source is at
:: http://www.poi-factory.com/
:: Absolutely nothing wrong with using any of these files to supplement
:: what is already factory loaded in your unit. In my case I loaded
:: the POI files containing all "AAA offices and Toyota Dealers" in
:: the country into my Unit. In fact, Garmin supports this activity by
:: providing the means ((POI Uploaded software) to upload these POI's
:: into your unit. Some people try so hard to be self righteous that
:: they can't see the forest because of the trees. It's the "mouth in
:: gear and brain in neutral" syndrome.
:: Per Andrew's mind set--apparently it was wrong--stealing,
:: infringement--you name it--- when I replaced my battery with a non
:: OEM part purchased at another vendor rather than getting hosed by
:: Garmin ( Wal-Mart/Target example). Would he pay the $79 (and get
:: gouged), buy another unit instead (almost halfway there anyway) or
:: go the $20 route and buy a replacement and install it himself?
:: Please enlighten us Andrew.
:: MLD
OK - the original question was "Should one pay for new maps in order to get
POI's?". I was answering that (of course, my opinion) in the *strictest*
sense that if the POIs were in the SAME for-fee map set you were obtaining
without paying for, then yes. Of course if one can get POIs from other
sources that you aren't obligated to pay for, that's fine. Same with the
OEM part.
Your conscious (sic?) should be your guide.
:: :::
:::: "Should one pay for new maps in order to get POI's? Do you
:::: consider this stealing from
:::: Garmin?"
::::
:::: Of course it is.
:::
::: I wasn't aware that Garmin sold POI updates separately from map
::: updates. Regardless, POI's are available from other sources besides
::: Garmin. Your logic seems akin to being called a thief at Walmart
::: because you dared to go to Target.
:::
::
:: Sunshine-----you're a man (or girl) after my own heart. I think
:: that you hit the nail on the head. As you noted, POI's are
:: available all over the place--one good source is at
:: http://www.poi-factory.com/
:: Absolutely nothing wrong with using any of these files to supplement
:: what is already factory loaded in your unit. In my case I loaded
:: the POI files containing all "AAA offices and Toyota Dealers" in
:: the country into my Unit. In fact, Garmin supports this activity by
:: providing the means ((POI Uploaded software) to upload these POI's
:: into your unit. Some people try so hard to be self righteous that
:: they can't see the forest because of the trees. It's the "mouth in
:: gear and brain in neutral" syndrome.
:: Per Andrew's mind set--apparently it was wrong--stealing,
:: infringement--you name it--- when I replaced my battery with a non
:: OEM part purchased at another vendor rather than getting hosed by
:: Garmin ( Wal-Mart/Target example). Would he pay the $79 (and get
:: gouged), buy another unit instead (almost halfway there anyway) or
:: go the $20 route and buy a replacement and install it himself?
:: Please enlighten us Andrew.
:: MLD
OK - the original question was "Should one pay for new maps in order to get
POI's?". I was answering that (of course, my opinion) in the *strictest*
sense that if the POIs were in the SAME for-fee map set you were obtaining
without paying for, then yes. Of course if one can get POIs from other
sources that you aren't obligated to pay for, that's fine. Same with the
OEM part.
Your conscious (sic?) should be your guide.
M
MLD
Andrew said:
At the onset, let me say that it's been nice " to agree not to agree" by
staying cool and without the usual insulting, name calling behavior that
often permeates this type of discussion. Having said that, when trying to
decide whether or not to replace or repair, the cost of the repair is prime.
Once you get close to 50% of the cost of buying new, one tends to swing
towards buying new. Don't think that Garmin doesn't bank on that mindset in
their pricing of maps and repair services. Make it expensive enough, get
them to throw it away and buy new. If they keep, we'll just rack up the
profit on our overpriced services/parts. That's my opinion of their
philosophy. Your hang-up is if one doesn't pay then it's infringement,
stealing etc---OK, instead of Free, instead of getting an updated map from
Garmin for $50 I buy a disk or file for $5 from someone who's selling it .
How/why--well, assume he bought the map and his unit failed before it was
installed and he decided to buy a Tom Tom. Since I paid something for it
(albeit not the full blown retail price), have I resolved the ethical
dilemma that's bothering you? Then again, assume this guy didn't pay for
the file, does it matter because somewhere along the line someone did buy
and pay for that Disc/file. For all I know, Mr. X could have been at the
end of a long line that's been passing it along, who knows. Am I obligated
to trace the file's history to verify if it's pure and untainted before I
use it---after all I did pay (something) for it?? Am I obliged to buy
Retail and only from Garmin? For example, someone buys an OEM auto part
from a Dealer--finds he doesn't need it--gives it to a friend who gives it
to a friend who then either gives it to me or sells it to me at a greatly
reduced price. Am I cheating the Auto maker or the Dealer if I put this
part in my car??
MLD
D
Dave
That works if it's an original, un-used map disc. Unlike the the car
part, software or data is easily copied so the car part can only be sold
once and used once. If you buy a used car part, it's the same part. The
seller and everyone else down the line to the supplier no longer has the
use of that part. With software, it's possible that everyone down the
line to the suppliers still has and is using that software or data.
Naturally, you can't know that so long as you got the data/software on
it's original media.
It's not as clear cut as some would have it.
If you are talking about downloading from some website other than Garmin,
then the odds are it's a copy and more than one person is making use of
the same item which Garmin only sold once. More so if you download it
and words such as PASSWORD, CRACK, HACK, KEYMAKER, KEYGEN etc are used in
the description
J
Joel
Dave said:
All human on this planet earth should against stealing, but US, US and all
the richest countries have been stealing sweat and blood of proplr of poor
countries for centuries.
And this is much worse than stealing some stinky copyright stuff some can
be consider stealing too.
J
Joel
Gene E. Bloch said:
If you have some brain or smart enough then you may know that we won't or
rarely see any type of virus in the computer world.
J
Joel
Unquestionably Confused said:
No, it's Joel who has to see too many STUPID people who can't even
understand the different between VIRUS vs Trojan/Worm/Malware etc..
J
Joel
Gene E. Bloch said:I reply to his posts extremely rarely, but this post bugged me much
more than usual by its lack of comprehension and by its hostility.
But your comments on his happiness were great fun
Because too many of you are too STUPID
G
Gene E. Bloch
QED.
L
Lon
Well, I've been designing computers and software for quite a few decades
and keep pretty up to date on CERTS and such, so I think we are pretty
much in agreement you honestly are clueless, but appear to be
insufficiently clueful to even recognize that status. At which point,
further discourse would be arguing with a pig.
J
Joel
Lon said:
You must be too stupid to be honest, and we sure can make a good pig out
of you.
Now, point your browser to Google to find out exactly what VIRUS really
is, how many and how often virus being spotted etc.. Then come back here
uncurl your pig-tail to give us a good report about VIRUS and your decades
of BS