GPS World: USNO's Fountain: Time at 100 Trillionths of a Second

[Sam Wormley]

[snip]

NOBODY AGREES WITH YOU.

When will you finally SHUT UP about this?

Considering that this thread is one of the most active
threads on Usenet,

and considering that all of the posters,
other than the General Relativity Cultists
seem to support my position,

I think what Gisse meant to say was
that my posts upset the General Relativity Cultists.

Don't flatter yourself Potter. You are among many that don't
have a good understanding of relativity and because you don't
you are forever disparaging it instead of reading some of
the fine reference provided to you.

It's so much easier for nay-sayers to waste their time arguing
about something that they could learn instead.

Bluster on, Potter, bluster some more! Froth at the mouth! Whatever!

 

[Tom Potter]

[snip]

NOBODY AGREES WITH YOU.

When will you finally SHUT UP about this?

Considering that this thread is one of the most active
threads on Usenet,

and considering that all of the posters,
other than the General Relativity Cultists
seem to support my position,

I think what Gisse meant to say was
that my posts upset the General Relativity Cultists.

Don't flatter yourself Potter. You are among many that don't
have a good understanding of relativity and because you don't
you are forever disparaging it instead of reading some of
the fine reference provided to you.

It's so much easier for nay-sayers to waste their time arguing
about something that they could learn instead.

As can be seen by his parroting and focus on messengers,
rather than on addressing the content of messages ,

Sam Wormley demonstrates how General Relativity Cultists
waste their time parroting things they don't understand.

They should focus on learning how to THINK,
and DO work that benefits society,
rather than MAKE work that wastes time, money and minds.

To contrast DO WORK with MAKE WORK,
it is helpful to compare General Relativity
to some other scientific models.

After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.

After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.

After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind,
fighting crime, developing better food crops, etc.

Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.

Note for example, that the taxpayers were forced to pay
about one billion dollars for the Gravity Probe B experiment,
ONE of the MANY experiments used to rationalize General Relativity.

One would think that if the GTR Charlatans and Cultists
possessed such powerful knowledge,
that they would enter the free market
like the guys from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Intel,
Texas Instruments, Apple, etc. and make billions of dollars,
rather than sucking up billions of the taxpayer's dollars.

Face the facts, GTR is basically a religion,
promoted for racial and religion glorification
by mass media like Time Magazine, the New York Times,
the Washington Post, etc.,
and only fools and the easily conditioned fall for it.

Cult worship of a person or a model
is the greatest obstacle to enlightenment and progress.

Making work,
rather than doing work
is a terrible thing.

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

 

[Tom Potter]

Since when was it hard to control an oven?


And how does one maintain this ice and water mixture in
a GPS satellite, Potter?

It's done in all GNSS satellite clocks, Potter!


For low eccentricity orbits, a fixed offset correction works well!


Atomic clocks are well behaved in orbit... most of those variables
are very well controlled, Potter.


You need to cite some literature, as I do not believe you, Potter.

For most applications (Watches, computers, etc.)

Clocks are what measure time, Potter. The atomic clocks on the
GPS SVs drive the carriers, and function of the electronics.



L1 1575.4200 Civil/Military Frequency
L2 1227.6000 Civil/Military Frequency
L3 1381.0500 Nuclear Burst Detection
L4 1841.4000 Ionospheric correction (proposed)
L5 1176.4500 Civil/Military Frequency


There are currently three frequencies used and a fourth (L5)
beginning in 2009.

L5 L2 L3 L1 L4
------------+-------+-----------|---------------------------+--------------+----
1176.45 1227.60 1381.05 1575.42 MHz 1841.40
115 x 120 x 135 x 154 x 10.23 MHz 180 x
| | | |
| | | |
Current | | | C/A
Signals | P(Y) NUDET P(Y)
| | |
| | |
| | |
Proposed P-like C/A(Possibly P-like code) C/A
New Signal code P(Y) P(Y)
Structure M-Codes M-Codes


Note that the military and other authorized users have access to
the Y-code at the chip rate of 10.23 Mbps. Course Acquisition (C/A)
is at a chip rate of 1.023 Mbps. However, since the unknown Y-code
is identical on both L1 and L2, several techniques can be used to
extract the 10.23 MHz carrier information, which is used in high
accuracy differential receivers (surveying).


Technique SNR loss**
---------------------------------------------------------
Squaring -30 dB
Cross correlation -27 dB
Code correlation plus squaring -17 dB
Z-Tracking (reported by Ashjaee and Lorenze 1992) -14 dB

**Loss compared to direct code correlation as used on
military dual frequency receivers.




L1 and L2 Navigation satellite Signal Power Budget

Parameter L1 P-Code L1 C/A-Code L2 P-Code
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
User minimum received power -163.0 dBw -160.0 dBw -166.0 dBw
Users linear antenna gain 3.0 dB 3.0 dB 3.0 dB
Free-space propagation loss 184.4 dB 184.4 dB 182.3 dB
Total atmospheric loss 2.0 dB 2.0 dB 2.0 dB
Polarization mismatch loss 3.4 dB 3.4 dB 4.4 dB
Required satellite EIRP +23.8 dBw +26.8 dBw +19.7 dBw
Satellite Antenna gain at 14.3? 13.5 dB 13.4 dB 11.5 dB
worst case Block II off-axis angle
Required minimum satellite antenna +10.3 dBw +13.4 dBw +8.2 dBw
input power 10.72W 21.88W 6.61W


Potter's understanding is flawed.


Potter misses the purpose of relativistic corrections. The reason is that
the clock rates of the satellite clocks will be the same as the ground
based clocks for ground based observers. If you can't understand that,
Potter, no wonder you screw up all the rest.

Regarding Sam Wormley's question:
"And how does one maintain this ice and water mixture in
a GPS satellite,"

Simple.

1. Use a thermoelectric cooler to cool
a container of water.

2. As the water becomes ice, the container expands
and operates a microswitch that turns the cooler off.

3. As the ice becomes water, the container contracts
and operates a microswitch that turns the cooler on.

4. Set the microswitch such that the best water/ice mixture is maintained.

Regarding Sammy's comment: "ILLUCID"
in response to my comment:
"when the accumulated count of a satellite accumulator (Satellite clock)
differs from the master system accumulator, (Master system clock)
that the GPS receivers are advised of this."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
"Words 3 through 10 of subframe 1 contain data
describing the satellite clock and its relationship to GPS time."

Regarding Sammy's request for references regarding my
comment on how the cut affects a quartz crystal

http://www.ecliptek.com/crystals/glossary.html
http://www.iqdfrequencyproducts.com/app-notes/crystal-resonators/
http://www.google.com/patents?id=Sa9tAAAAEBAJ&dq=2743144

Regarding my comment that
"the General Relativity Gurus and Cultists"
don't seem to understand why it is desirable
that "the oscillators in the satellites operate near the same frequency
as the Earth bound Master oscillator.."

Sammy replied:
"The reason is that the clock rates of the satellite clocks will be the same as the ground
based clocks for ground based observers."

As can be seen Sammy avoids answering my question,
as he, like all other General Relativity Gurus and Cultists,
doesn't seem to know the answer to

WHY it is desirable to have the "clock rates" (Frequencies)
"near the same frequency".

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

 

[Sam Wormley]

To contrast DO WORK with MAKE WORK,
it is helpful to compare General Relativity
to some other scientific models.

Say Newton's Classical Mechanics.... OK. Newton's Classical Mechanics
is a VERY fruitful tool, but it get some things wrong, such as

o the perihelion precession of Mercury
o the bending of light in a gravitational field
o the corrections of satellite clocks
o the delay of light in a gravitational field
o etc.

Bluster on, Potter, bluster some more! Froth at the mouth! Whatever!

 

[Sam Wormley]

Regarding Sam Wormley's question:
"And how does one maintain this ice and water mixture in
a GPS satellite,"

Simple.

1. Use a thermoelectric cooler to cool
a container of water.

2. As the water becomes ice, the container expands
and operates a microswitch that turns the cooler off.

3. As the ice becomes water, the container contracts
and operates a microswitch that turns the cooler on.

4. Set the microswitch such that the best water/ice mixture is maintained.

Doesn't sound stable or efficient Potter. That's 80 calories/gram
cycling back and forth... Probably a huge energy waster! Potter, it's
pretty cold in space... where are you gonna get the heat to keep
things in the 0° C temperature range?


There once was a feller named Potter
Who's physics -- a bit of a rotter
He sputtered and roared
Most others got bored
He grasps relativity, Notter

 

[Y.y.Porat]

Sammy is right when he notes that
"relativistic effects were not observed by Galileo"

Galileo, with his original and creative experiments
OBSERVING the EFFECTS
of time, acceleration, velocity, forces
celestial motions, etc. was a clear thinker,
and provided the stimulus for the rapid advancement of physics.

On the other hand, by trying to extend
the model (Stresses and strains) and methods (Tensors)
of the stress analysis engineers, to model
structures inhabited by sentient beings,

Einstein created an auguring system that introduced babble
into physics with such concepts as rubber clocks and rulers,
time travel, worm holes, space warps,
the beginning and end of the universe, etc.

eliminated sentient man from the universe,

inhibited the advancement of science,

and wasted time, money and minds.

The fact of the matter is that NO ONE has ever
observed "relativistic effects".

What people have observed are effects first noted
by people like Galileo (Acceleration effect),
Doppler (Velocity effect), Hubble (Distance effect), etc.

Sammy, like most people, has been conditioned
by the mass media to steal credit from thousands
of hard-working, creative folks,
and attribute the work to the Media's Poster Boy
for Jewish intelligence,

---------------------
hey farter psychpath!!

about what 'Jewish intelligence' are you talking???

i am Jew and yet do not accept GR!!

and i am not the only Jew that do not agree with it
so what jewish intelligence
is a racist idiot psychpath is talking about ??
yet i do accept SR
and accepting or rejecting a scientific
theory has nothing and should not have nothing to do with ***your
**sick pathological
racist psychopathic nonscientific theories

Y.Porat
-------------------------------------

 

[gabydewilde]

   Bluster on, Potter, bluster some more! Froth at the mouth! Whatever!

I think you hurt the Worm professors pheelings Tom.

Perhaps we should give him some millions and he will feel better.

http://img.go-here.nl/fundie.gif

[snip]
NOBODY AGREES WITH YOU.
When will you finally SHUT UP about this?
Considering that this thread is one of the most active
threads on Usenet,
and considering that all of the posters,
other than the General Relativity Cultists
seem to support my position,
I think what Gisse meant to say was
that my posts upset the General Relativity Cultists.

Don't flatter yourself Potter. You are among many that don't
have a good understanding of relativity and because you don't
you are forever disparaging it instead of reading some of
the fine reference provided to you.

It's so much easier for nay-sayers to waste their time arguing
about something that they could learn instead.

As can be seen by his parroting and focus on messengers,
rather than on addressing the content of messages ,

Sam Wormley demonstrates how General Relativity Cultists
waste their time parroting things they don't understand.

They should focus on learning how to THINK,
and DO work that benefits society,
rather than MAKE work that wastes time, money and minds.

To contrast DO WORK with MAKE WORK,
it is helpful to compare General Relativity
to some other scientific models.

After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.

After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.

After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind,
fighting crime, developing better food crops, etc.

Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.

Note for example, that the taxpayers were forced to pay
about one billion dollars for the Gravity Probe B experiment,
ONE of the MANY experiments used to rationalize General Relativity.

One would think that if the GTR Charlatans and Cultists
possessed such powerful knowledge,
that they would enter the free market
like the guys from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Intel,
Texas Instruments, Apple, etc. and make billions of dollars,
rather than sucking up billions of the taxpayer's dollars.

Face the facts, GTR is basically a religion,
promoted for racial and religion glorification
by mass media like Time Magazine, the New York Times,
the Washington Post, etc.,
and only fools and the easily conditioned fall for it.

Cult worship of a person or a model
is the greatest obstacle to enlightenment and progress.

Making work,
rather than doing work
is a terrible thing.

 

[Tom Potter]

---------------------
hey farter psychpath!!

about what 'Jewish intelligence' are you talking???

i am Jew and yet do not accept GR!!

and i am not the only Jew that do not agree with it
so what jewish intelligence
is a racist idiot psychpath is talking about ??
yet i do accept SR
and accepting or rejecting a scientific
theory has nothing and should not have nothing to do with ***your
**sick pathological
racist psychopathic nonscientific theories

Y.Porat

It is interesting to see that Y.Porat calls me a "racist"
although I am married to an Asian,
taught in an all Black Inner City high school,
have many Black, Latino and Asian friends,
have aggressively defended Muslims, Latinos, etc. in the Newsgroups,
aggressively promoted Obama for president, etc.

because I stated my opinion that
Time Magazine, the New York Times,
the Washington Post, the Hearst Newspapers,
and other Jewish controlled mass media,
were motivated by race and religion
when they declared Einstein "The man of the Century",
hyped his General Relativity as man's greatest intellectual achievement.
and made him the Poster Boy for Jewish intelligence.

Hopefully Y.Porat will answer a couple of questions.

1. Could it be that Time Magazine, the New York Times,
the Washington Post, the Hearst Newspapers,
and other Jewish controlled mass media
were being RACIST when they
Einstein declared "The man of the Century"
and General Relativity hyped as man's greatest intellectual achievement?

2. Why is it that when ANYONE publicly mentions
FACTS that put Jews in an unfavorable,
they are immediately labeled as a bigot and a racist?

It may be that Jews have institutionalized racism and bigotry,
as Y.Porat demonstrated with his post,
and the mass media has demonstrated time and again.

I must mention that I, and rational, intelligent, moral folks,
support our positions with logic and historical facts,
and do not mouth off and call folks "racist idiot psychpaths".

The definition of "bigot" is:
"A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own."

To read the stories of a few of the many folks
who have been victims of Institutionalized bigotry
visit the web site below.

<http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/victims/index.html>

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

 

[Tom Potter]

Say Newton's Classical Mechanics.... OK. Newton's Classical Mechanics
is a VERY fruitful tool, but it get some things wrong, such as

o the perihelion precession of Mercury
o the bending of light in a gravitational field
o the corrections of satellite clocks
o the delay of light in a gravitational field
o etc.

The "satellite clocks" are NOT corrected by General Relativity,
and in general, they are not even corrected.

A master clock monitors the clocks in the satellites,
and advises users when a satellite clock deviates from the master clock.

And of course, speculating on things
beyond man's capacity to ever experience in time and space
like the beginning and end of the universe,
and the mind of God,
is MAKING WORK, not DOING WORK.

No doubt, if one has the time and personal resources
to PLAY and jerk off (Dissipate his own work.)
this is okay,

but it is not okay,
to PLAY and jerk off with the fruits of the labors
of other folks.

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

 

[Tom Potter]

Doesn't sound stable or efficient Potter. That's 80 calories/gram
cycling back and forth... Probably a huge energy waster! Potter, it's
pretty cold in space... where are you gonna get the heat to keep
things in the 0° C temperature range?

Sammy, a body exchanges heat via
conduction, convection, and radiation.

In space, nominal heat is lost or gained via conduction and convection,
and the radiation loss can be, and is, balanced by the radiation gain
utilizing the Sun's power input.

(Otherwise, the space station would quickly freeze up.)

As 1 watt hour = 860.42065 calories,
it doesn't take much of a satellite's power to
maintain an ice bath in a tiny container.

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

 

[Y.Porat]

It is interesting to see that Y.Porat calls me a "racist"  
although I am married to an Asian,
taught in an all Black Inner City high school,
have many Black, Latino and Asian friends,
have aggressively defended Muslims, Latinos, etc. in the Newsgroups,
aggressively promoted Obama for president, etc.

because I stated my opinion that
Time Magazine, the New York Times,
the Washington Post, the Hearst Newspapers,
and other Jewish controlled mass media,
were motivated by race and religion
when they declared Einstein "The man of the Century",
hyped his General Relativity as man's greatest intellectual achievement.
and made him the Poster Boy for Jewish intelligence.

Hopefully Y.Porat will answer a couple of questions.

1. Could it be that Time Magazine, the New York Times,
the Washington Post, the Hearst Newspapers,
and other Jewish controlled mass media
were being RACIST when they
Einstein declared "The man of the Century"
and General Relativity hyped as man's greatest intellectual achievement?

2. Why is it that when ANYONE publicly mentions
FACTS that put Jews in an unfavorable,
they are immediately labeled as a bigot and a racist?

It may be that Jews have institutionalized racism and bigotry,
as Y.Porat demonstrated with his post,
and the mass media has demonstrated time and again.

I must mention that I, and rational, intelligent, moral folks,
support our positions with logic and historical facts,
and do not mouth off and call folks "racist idiot psychpaths".

The definition of "bigot" is:
"A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own."

To read the stories of a few of the many folks
who have been victims of Institutionalized bigotry
visit the web site below.

<http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/victims/index.html>

--------------------
i dont know about the news paper that you mentioned above
we have here a scientific ng right/

so thses pspers are not scientists
if they declared Einstein as the physicsist of the 20 thcentury
it was not their invention
theyjsut quoted waht scientists saied!
now jewish or not jewish as for now
ENSTEIN IS THE SCINTIST OF THE 20TH CENTURY!!
do you know why ?
not imho because of his curved sapce time
which is wrong
but even by that he showed a unique ability of creative immagination
scince while in a dead end like tday
can make advance
*only by trial and error*!!
no other way
so by trial and error you are soemtmes
rigth and sometimes wrong
yet that is the only way to make advance
now even if imho he was wrong about
GR
he was rigth about SR!!
if you dont understand it it is your problem!
i cantell you why i think he was right about
SR
justtake the formula
E=mc^2
itis an historic acievement
and a momentous land mark in the history
of sceince
got it ??
just that E=mc^2
is good enough to put him in the Pantheon
of science !!
yet it was not his only contribution
his acheivements about the photoelectric phenomenon
was good enough to be awarded by the
Nobel prize and justly done !!
now
why i thing personally that Sr is right
ingeneral
it is based on the physical fact that
a mass while accelerated to higher
velocities
gets more and more difficults to add more velocity!
(that is an unquationable experimental fact !
now if time is motion comparison
and if some how
one of the 'measure rs of time
you have it as the sr formulas show it
that is just a simple example
why he is rigth
i have to stop because of a lightening storm -)
Y.Porat
-----------------------

 

[Sam Wormley]

Sammy, a body exchanges heat via
conduction, convection, and radiation.

In space, nominal heat is lost or gained via conduction and convection,
and the radiation loss can be, and is, balanced by the radiation gain
utilizing the Sun's power input.

(Otherwise, the space station would quickly freeze up.)

As 1 watt hour = 860.42065 calories,
it doesn't take much of a satellite's power to
maintain an ice bath in a tiny container.

I'm glad you've got it all worked out Potter!

 

[Sam Wormley]

The "satellite clocks" are NOT corrected by General Relativity,
and in general, they are not even corrected.

Perhaps I should have clarified that global navigation satellite
clocks certainly employ relativistic corrections, Potter. It's
so easy for you to get confused.

 

[Tom Potter]

Perhaps I should have clarified that global navigation satellite
clocks certainly employ relativistic corrections, Potter. It's
so easy for you to get confused.

No Sammy, the oscillators and clocks do not "employ relativistic corrections".
The oscillators just oscillate,
and the accumulators (Clocks) just accumulate,

If you visit the URL below,
you will see that EVERY GPS satellite
transmits its' time and frequency offsets,

and if you study how GPS receivers operate
you will see that they use this data.

What confuses you, and General Relativity Cultists,
is that as it is desirable to have all of the carrier
frequencies, from all of the satellites,
as close together as possible,
so they will all fit within the same receiver band,
the frequencies output from the atomic oscillators
in all of the satellites are adjusted to compensate
for the Galileo Effect.

As you may know,
Galileo discovered over 400 years ago
that oscillators were affected by acceleration,
and England sent ships all over the world with standard pendulums
to measure the acceleration at different places,
and Newton used this data to compute the mass of the Moon,
the shape of the Earth and tides all over the Earth.

It is interesting to see that Newton used hand calculations
and his crude model of reality,
and to my knowledge, no General Relativity Guru or Cultist
has done this with a digital computer.

It seems to me that some General Relativity Guru
would write a computer program that would allow folks
to input the acceleration at various points,
and obtain data about that point,
and information about the forces affecting that point.

Newton did it using the Galileo Effect.
It should be easy to do this using General Relativity
and a modern computer and a modern computer language.

Sammy, take a look at the URL below
to see what the time and frequency offsets
were for each of the satellites at different dates.

You will see that the atomic oscillators just oscillate,
and the accumulators (Clocks) just accumulate.

http://gps.nist.gov/scripts/onewaygps.exe

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

 

[Tom Potter]

--------------------
i dont know about the news paper that you mentioned above
we have here a scientific ng right/

so thses pspers are not scientists
if they declared Einstein as the physicsist of the 20 thcentury
it was not their invention
theyjsut quoted waht scientists saied!
now jewish or not jewish as for now
ENSTEIN IS THE SCINTIST OF THE 20TH CENTURY!!
do you know why ?
not imho because of his curved sapce time
which is wrong
but even by that he showed a unique ability of creative immagination
scince while in a dead end like tday
can make advance
*only by trial and error*!!
no other way
so by trial and error you are soemtmes
rigth and sometimes wrong
yet that is the only way to make advance
now even if imho he was wrong about
GR
he was rigth about SR!!
if you dont understand it it is your problem!
i cantell you why i think he was right about
SR
justtake the formula
E=mc^2
itis an historic acievement
and a momentous land mark in the history
of sceince
got it ??
just that E=mc^2
is good enough to put him in the Pantheon
of science !!
yet it was not his only contribution
his acheivements about the photoelectric phenomenon
was good enough to be awarded by the
Nobel prize and justly done !!
now
why i thing personally that Sr is right
ingeneral
it is based on the physical fact that
a mass while accelerated to higher
velocities
gets more and more difficults to add more velocity!
(that is an unquationable experimental fact !
now if time is motion comparison
and if some how
one of the 'measure rs of time
you have it as the sr formulas show it
that is just a simple example
why he is rigth
i have to stop because of a lightening storm -)
Y.Porat
-----------------------

The question is
does Y.Porat worship Einstein because he is a Jew,
or was he conditioned to by the mass media?

The fact of the matter is that with his "photoelectric phenomenon" theory
Einstein has sent mankind on at least a one hundred year detour.

Although changes are conveyed from causes to effects
in units of ACTION (Planck's Constant),

because of the hyping of Einstein by the mass media
and people like Y.Porat, most people ERRONEOUSLY think
that energy, rather than ACTION is quanta.

Also, the equations energy = mass * velocity^2
falls right out of Maxwell's Dimensional Analysis,
as do all other equations,

as "C" is just the velocity of an electromagnetic wave
under the conditions of pure space
where the permeability and the permittivity have constant values
( The presence of matter affects permeability and permittivity.),
and Maxwell knew what the velocity of "light" (EM radiation) was
and what affected if long before Einstein.

No doubt, Einstein made a few contributions
but his quanta of energy was a rip-off and distortion
of Planck's real quanta, ACTION,

and Einstein's statistics are a rip-off and nominal variation
of Maxwell's statistic that simply states that
verb (Bosons) and nouns (Fermions) are words (Things),

and of course, his General Relativity
is a rip-off of the model (Stresses and strains)
and tools (Tensors) of the stress analysis engineers of the 1800's.

The fact of the matter is,
that if Time Magazine, the New York Times,
the Hearst newspapers, the Washington Post, etc.
had not hyped Einstein, and conned the public,
and intimidated physicists on government payrolls,

physics and the world would be much richer for it,
and the people who made the great contributions to physics
would get their rightful credit.

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

 

[Sam Wormley]

No Sammy, the oscillators and clocks do not "employ relativistic corrections".
The oscillators just oscillate,
and the accumulators (Clocks) just accumulate,

If you visit the URL below,
you will see that EVERY GPS satellite
transmits its' time and frequency offsets,

and if you study how GPS receivers operate
you will see that they use this data.

What confuses you, and General Relativity Cultists,
is that as it is desirable to have all of the carrier
frequencies, from all of the satellites,
as close together as possible,
so they will all fit within the same receiver band,
the frequencies output from the atomic oscillators
in all of the satellites are adjusted to compensate
for the Galileo Effect.

As you may know,
Galileo discovered over 400 years ago
that oscillators were affected by acceleration,
and England sent ships all over the world with standard pendulums
to measure the acceleration at different places,
and Newton used this data to compute the mass of the Moon,
the shape of the Earth and tides all over the Earth.

It is interesting to see that Newton used hand calculations
and his crude model of reality,
and to my knowledge, no General Relativity Guru or Cultist
has done this with a digital computer.

It seems to me that some General Relativity Guru
would write a computer program that would allow folks
to input the acceleration at various points,
and obtain data about that point,
and information about the forces affecting that point.

Newton did it using the Galileo Effect.
It should be easy to do this using General Relativity
and a modern computer and a modern computer language.

Sammy, take a look at the URL below
to see what the time and frequency offsets
were for each of the satellites at different dates.

You will see that the atomic oscillators just oscillate,
and the accumulators (Clocks) just accumulate.

http://gps.nist.gov/scripts/onewaygps.exe

<laughing>
Bluster on, Potter, bluster some more! Froth at the mouth! Whatever!

 

[Kevin Horton]

the frequencies output from the atomic oscillators
in all of the satellites are adjusted to compensate
for the Galileo Effect.

As you may know,
Galileo discovered over 400 years ago
that oscillators were affected by acceleration,
and England sent ships all over the world with standard pendulums
to measure the acceleration at different places,
and Newton used this data to compute the mass of the Moon,
the shape of the Earth and tides all over the Earth.

Interesting idea. I can see how the frequency of mechanical
oscillators could be affected by variations in acceleration. I wonder
what would be the mechanism by which atomic clocks would be similarly
affected.

It would be interesting to do a test. I wonder if anyone has ever put
an atomic clock in a centrifuge. It would be easy to subject it to
several g of acceleration for a long period to see the effect on the
frequency of the clock.

 

[Tom Potter]

Interesting idea. I can see how the frequency of mechanical
oscillators could be affected by variations in acceleration. I wonder
what would be the mechanism by which atomic clocks would be similarly
affected.

It would be interesting to do a test. I wonder if anyone has ever put
an atomic clock in a centrifuge. It would be easy to subject it to
several g of acceleration for a long period to see the effect on the
frequency of the clock.

I dare say that it would be easy to determine the "mechanism"
if a few billion taxpayers dollars were used to perform experiments,

and if 13 hacks using Classical Physics magnetic, electric,
windage, friction, temperature, velocity, etc. were used to
adjust the data to fit the results.

Of course, it would take all of the 13 Classical Physics hacks,
to adjust for all of the artifact that would result from using
a centrifuge.

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm

 

[Tom Roberts]

I can see how the frequency of mechanical
oscillators could be affected by variations in acceleration.

They certainly are, but the details of the oscillator and acceleration
affect the amount.

I wonder
what would be the mechanism by which atomic clocks would be similarly
affected.

This depends in detail on the timekeeping mechanism, and the type of
acceleration.

It would be interesting to do a test. I wonder if anyone has ever put
an atomic clock in a centrifuge.

Commercial cesium atomic clocks have specifications for this, and
manufacturers have most definitely tested this. I believe many such
clocks can stand about 2 g and remain within their timekeeping
specifications. Certainly they have been operated successfully in
automobiles and airplanes.

Modern fountain clocks depend on the acceleration of gravity for their
operation and will fail for any other acceleration (internally they put
cesium atoms in a freefall "fountain" and measure their hyperfine
transition; other accelerations wouldn't affect the atoms, but their
trajectory would be incorrect and the mechanism couldn't measure them).

I believe the atomic clocks in GPS satellites are not running during
lift-off. They are not fountain clocks, of course, but they operate
within spec both on earth (1 g) and in orbit (~10^-6 g).

In Gravity Probe A a hydrogen maser was operating during lift-off and
re-entry of a Scout rocket; comparison to ground-based clocks throughout
the flight agreed with the prediction of GR, in which acceleration does
not affect the timekeeping.

The timekeeping mechanism that causes muons to decay is unaffected (at
the 0.1% level) by the truly enormous acceleration of 10^18 g (see the
FAQ and its reference to the experiment by Bailey et al).


Tom Potter responded:

[... utter nonsense indicating complete ignorance of the subject]

Tom Roberts

 

[Sue...]

They certainly are, but the details of the oscillator and acceleration
affect the amount.


This depends in detail on the timekeeping mechanism, and the type of
acceleration.


Commercial cesium atomic clocks have specifications for this, and
manufacturers have most definitely tested this. I believe many such
clocks can stand about 2 g and remain within their timekeeping
specifications. Certainly they have been operated successfully in
automobiles and airplanes.

Modern fountain clocks depend on the acceleration of gravity for their
operation and will fail for any other acceleration (internally they put
cesium atoms in a freefall "fountain" and measure their hyperfine
transition; other accelerations wouldn't affect the atoms, but their
trajectory would be incorrect and the mechanism couldn't measure them).

I believe the atomic clocks in GPS satellites are not running during
lift-off. They are not fountain clocks, of course, but they operate
within spec both on earth (1 g) and in orbit (~10^-6 g).

In Gravity Probe A a hydrogen maser was operating during lift-off and
re-entry of a Scout rocket; comparison to ground-based clocks throughout
the flight agreed with the prediction of GR, in which acceleration does
not affect the timekeeping.

The timekeeping mechanism that causes muons to decay is unaffected (at
the 0.1% level) by the truly enormous acceleration of 10^18 g (see the
FAQ and its reference to the experiment by Bailey et al).

What is the Lorentz force on the muons of
the experiment?

Sue...

Tom Potter responded:
 > [... utter nonsense indicating complete ignorance of the subject]

Tom Roberts