Einstein's Relativity and Everyday Life -- Clifford M. Will

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sam Wormley
  • Start date Start date
Potter--What is this "Galileo Effect" you a babbling about? I
can't seem to find it in the literature.
 
Eric said:
It doesn't make him an authority on everything.
Click to expand...

Well, I have been much less impressed by your "authority".
What have you invented? Parroting doesn't equal understanding.

And since you are starting to bark like dda1, I am afraid
I must stop reading your posts too, as I don't want it
to disturb me to the point that I would be in danger
of starting to get rude and boorish myself.
 
Phineas said:
Considering the equations that give the actual corrections predate the
GPS, I would say that this argument is pretty futile.
Click to expand...

Not everything is handled by the geometrical equations of GR, e.g.
there is
"blueshift" that is predicted because of the "equivalance principle"
(btw said "equivalence principle" actually makes for
a bullet-proof twin-paradox, see http://www.mukesh.ws/grpdx1.html )

Looking at the calculations for GPS, it appears there are multiple
sources of the correction. It is not implausible that various
sources were found/invented, as the data was discovered,
to match the observations.

Since no published paper appears to be available that
PRE-dicted the actual correction prior to the data availability
(and there is some indication apparently the initial prediction had
the wrong sign, never mind the magnitude, and had to
be "corrected" using other principles,) to me at this
point it is entirely dismissable without further proof.
 
Sam Wormley said:
Potter--What is this "Galileo Effect" you a babbling about? I
can't seem to find it in the literature.
Click to expand...

Sam Wormley brings up a good point!

The effect discovered by Galileo over 300 years ago,
that oscillators are affected by acceleration,
has been co-opted by the General Relativity Cult.

It is also interesting to see that the "Hubble Effect",
which Hubble discovered, indicates that
the observed frequency of an oscillator is a function of distance
has also been co-opt by the General Relativity Cult,
and incorporated into their dogma, as has been the
photoelectric effect which was discovered by
Heinrich Hertz in 1887.

I dare say that in time, the General Relativity Cult
will also co-opt the piezo-electric effect,
temperature effect, and all other effects,
and claim that they were discovered and predicted by the
General Relativity Cult's God.

As can be seen by a reference
often quoted by the General Relativity Cult,
one of the General Relativity Cult Priest's
uses 13 hacks (Co-opted effects) to General Relativity
to account for the single Galileo effect.

It seems to me,
that credit should be given where credit is due,
and folks like Galileo, Doppler, Hubble, Hertz, etc.
should get credit for the effects they discover.

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
Phineas T Puddleduck said:
Post your sources the equation is from Galileo.

I suggest you're an idiot.
Click to expand...

I thought you ***PLONKED me***
I suggest you are an idiot and a liar,

and an immature clown
who can't resist reading my posts.

I will be looking forward to seeing you
feature me on your web site.

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
Bhanwara the AssSmeller Mukesh Prasad wrote:
<all snipped because of extreme imbecility>

You don't have to read my posts , cretin. Everyone googling your name
is the intended target. The intent is for your family, co-workers, etc
to understand what an imbecile Mukesh Prasad is.
 
Bhanwara said:
Looking at the calculations for GPS, it appears there are multiple
sources of the correction. It is not implausible that various
sources were found/invented, as the data was discovered,
to match the observations.

Since no published paper appears to be available that
PRE-dicted the actual correction prior to the data availability
(and there is some indication apparently the initial prediction had
the wrong sign, never mind the magnitude, and had to
be "corrected" using other principles,) to me at this
point it is entirely dismissable without further proof.
Click to expand...

Ok now I'm going to killfile you to as it seems you are so closed
minded you cannot see the nose in front of your face. You've been given
the tools to see for yourself that the equations THAT PREDATE GPS work
in the ways shown in various sources.

How can GR corrections for GPS be invented when they predate it?

Its obvious that you have an inherent distaste of GR, further
complicated by your lack of understanding of it - of which you yourself
have admitted.
 
Tom Potter said:
I thought you ***PLONKED me***
I suggest you are an idiot and a liar,

and an immature clown
who can't resist reading my posts.

I will be looking forward to seeing you
feature me on your web site.
Click to expand...

No you won't. Ever

Thanks for reminding me. I've been swapping over different newsreaders
and obvious corrupted my kill file somehow
 
Tom said:
Sam Wormley brings up a good point!

The effect discovered by Galileo over 300 years ago,
that oscillators are affected by acceleration,
has been co-opted by the General Relativity Cult.

It is also interesting to see that the "Hubble Effect",
which Hubble discovered...
Click to expand...

The Hubble effect is well known, but the "Galileo Effect", you
you appear to be making up.
 
Bhanwara TongueInAss Mukesh Prasad wrote:

..... to me at this
point it is entirely dismissable without further proof.
Click to expand...

Who cares what YOU think? You are a bigotted imbecile, Mukesh Prasad.
And you advertise your imbecility daily, cretin Mukesh Prasad. You are
realising your dream, you are becoming famous on Google. The whole
world gets a measure of your arrogance+cretinism.
 
Tom Potter said:
Sam Wormley brings up a good point!

The effect discovered by Galileo over 300 years ago,
that oscillators are affected by acceleration,
Click to expand...

Yet Potter is unable to cite where he published this alleged discovery.

[...]
As can be seen by a reference
often quoted by the General Relativity Cult,
one of the General Relativity Cult Priest's
uses 13 hacks
Click to expand...

And Potter still can't name even one of these so-called hacks.
 
Tim said:
And not just in America.


How I wish that was a joke :-(
Still, Mr. Potter is providing plenty of entertainment.
Click to expand...

Tom Potter posted:
---------------------------
"Rational, intelligent, inventive, practical folks know
that it does not take 13 hacks of General Relativity to account for the

"38 microseconds per day, the XXXXXX offset in the rates of
the satellite clocks", when a simple equation discovered
by Galileo does the job better.

Tim posted:
-----------------
"Huh? Has relativity suddenly become controversial? "

J. J. Lodder tried to make it a race/religion dichotomy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given the anti-scientific mood now prevalent in the USA
that would not at all be surprising.

It's Jewish science you know,
and no doubt also a piece of liberal scheming
to hide the truth.

Tom Potter tossed race and religion back at J. J. Lodder.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan raises a good point.
Jews are central to a lot of conflict and babble.

Consider the Bible, Communism, Freudism, General Relativity,
the Class Wars of the 1900's, the Religious Wars of the 2000's, etc.

I wonder if this is a function of Nature (Genetics)
or Nurture (Religion)?

Jan also raises a good point when she suggests that where there
is more heat than light, that the matter
should be examined so liberals and conservatives,
Christians, Jews or Muslims, etc.
cannot "hide the truth".

This would make a good subject for scientists to study.
To see where babble and conflict come from,
and what its' affects on society are.

It would be interesting to start by making
a top 100 "More heat than light" subject list.

I suggest:
1. The Bible.
2. General Relativity
3. Communism vs. free markets.
4. Liberal vs conservative
5. Action vs energy (As the unit of change)
6. ..

Please add your favorite "More heat than light" subject.

Tim took another personal shot at Potter.
(No doubt because I have exposed his ignorance of physics.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How I wish that was a joke :-(
Still, Mr. Potter is providing plenty of entertainment.

==========================

End of quotes:

As can be seen by the responses throughout society,
when anyone suggests that General Relativity
is a Tower of Babel,
that generates more heat than light,
and wastes time, money and minds on
such pursuits as time travel, worm holes,
gravitons, rubber clocks and rulers, etc.

someone always tries to make it
an anti-Semitic thing, and they attack the messenger,
rather than address the message in a rational,
intelligent, MORAL way.

And as can be seen ,
when I threw J. J. Lodder's race/religion biased response
back in his face, and suggested that folks should
make up a list of things that generate
more heat than light,

Tim, motivated by race and religion,
or perhaps because I have exposed his ignorance of physics
in the newsgroups, uses J. J. Lodder's post
as an excuse to bushwhack.

It appears that Tim is all bent out of shape,
and is more motivated to bushwhack folks
than he is to think about what things
generate more heat than light.

Hopefully J. J. Lodder will not let
his race and religion co-opt his morality
and rationality, and hopefully Tim will consider that
things generate more heat than light,
is more important to him and society
than bushwhacking the folks who expose his ignorance.

If truth, morality, and rationality are on the side of
J. J. Lodder and Tim, they should be more than happy
to present their cases, rather than trying to make the messenger
the issue.

I will be looking forward to seeing J. J. Lodder and Tim
contribute their own lists of things that
generate more heat than light,
and discuss the issues in a rational, intelligent, MORAL way.

I suggest that their lists and comments will
provide plenty of "entertainment"
for the readers in the newsgroups.

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
 
"Rational, intelligent, inventive, practical folks know
that it does not take 13 hacks of General Relativity to account for the
Click to expand...


What are these 13 hacks that you refer to Potter?
 
Phineas said:
How can GR corrections for GPS be invented when they predate it?
Click to expand...

Uh, THAT was the question, do the GR corrections
really predate it, or have they been patched
together after the fact?

For instance, a major part of the GPS corrections are required because
of Doppler effects -- a satellite in geosynchronous orbit is going
FASTER than the ground beneath it.

GR then takes this effect and changes it to be because
of Gravitational Potential difference and Equivalence Principle.
However, if the effect was due to Gravitational Potential, the
Doppler effect would have to be ADDED to it. Because in ADDITION
to being at a different Gravitational Potential, the
satellite is still going faster.

So the math and logic that says "GPS depends upon GR"
is highly suspect.
 
Bhanwara said:
Uh, THAT was the question, do the GR corrections
really predate it, or have they been patched
together after the fact?

For instance, a major part of the GPS corrections are required because
of Doppler effects -- a satellite in geosynchronous orbit is going
FASTER than the ground beneath it.

GR then takes this effect and changes it to be because
of Gravitational Potential difference and Equivalence Principle.
However, if the effect was due to Gravitational Potential, the
Doppler effect would have to be ADDED to it. Because in ADDITION
to being at a different Gravitational Potential, the
satellite is still going faster.

So the math and logic that says "GPS depends upon GR"
is highly suspect.
Click to expand...

Yep - this is the post that killfiles you for sure

GR doesn't change any effect - its cumulatative. SR, GR and doppler.

*PLONK*
 
Phineas said:
Eddington's claim was re: gravitational deflection. It is widely
accepted that the proof of that at the time was overinflated as it
pushed the limits of the photographical plate to its limits. Later
works proved GR was correct.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I have been saying -- GR is malleable
enough to accurately post-dict any observations, even if it
takes decades. And when it comes to pre-dictions, there
is always plenty of room for apologists.
 
Phineas said:
GR doesn't change any effect - its cumulatative. SR, GR and doppler.
Click to expand...

The "Doppler effect" as in GR calculations is "relativistic". It's
used
up as an adjustment to the GR correction. This is not the same as
a calculation of Doppler effect without any reference to relativity
(as a competitor to the GR calculations.)

And theoretically, SR effects cannot be added to GR, as
GR includes constancy.

However, when you have to arrive at some given number,
maybe it helped to be able to add and subtract various entities.
 
Fucking said:
The "Doppler effect" as in GR calculations is "relativistic". It's
used
up as an adjustment to the GR correction. This is not the same as
a calculation of Doppler effect without any reference to relativity
(as a competitor to the GR calculations.)
Click to expand...

Cretinoid, there is only one correct description of the Doppler effect
for em waves , the relativistic one. You know, the one derived by
Einstein in his 1905 paper.

Mukesh Prasad, your daily dose of shit eating has reached record
levels.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 26 (members: 0, guests: 26)
Back
Top