Bush to consider shutting down GPS in extreme emergency

So you've invented underground GPS receivers?

They used normal surveying gear to fix the starting points of the
tunnels (GPS wasn't all that available when they started), and
underground they used lasers and conventional surveying gear to keep
the tunnel going straight.

Ever heard the term "Collateral Damage"?

Try selling THAT to the Pentagon...

GPS was and is paid for out of the budget of the Pentagon (Air Force,
IIRC, or was it the Navy?).

Try it. Get Congress to do that. Ups... Congress listens to the
President at least during this term.

Not really godlike - god doesn't have horns ;-)

The Congress and civilian administration could attempt to revert an
order to shutdown GPS, but that would take a lot of time and red tape -
in the meantime, the system would be down. It would be different if GPS
was owned by NASA - but it isn't.

I'm not saying that this is a good thing, but it's a plain and simple
fact. You can ask the Military to assist a civilian authority, but they
CAN decline that request.


Juergen Nieveler

 

Actually, the problem was "Getting lost and hitting stuff that you
thought was somewhere else" ;-)

But radio navigation systems are precise enough to use for navigation,
and have been available for decades before GPS was invented.

Juergen Nieveler

 

At least in civilised regions using a pre-surveyed position to place
the DGPS is faster and easier

Juergen Nieveler

 

I won't look it up, but I'll take your word for it. My understanding was as I
stated it (which seems reasonable).

Ten years ago (or so) the Army airfield in Caracas would not allow piston
aircraft of any kind to operate there. Twin turboprops or jets only (single
engine turbine helos are allowed). The twin piston accident rate with engine
failures after TO were simply too high, and the airport is in the downtown area
and the city is in a spectacular, but deep valley.

Cheers,
Alan

 

That's not what I said. Your selective snipping is irritating. What I said,
which is to be taken as a whole statement is: "It's exactly how to run an
airline. Most new airliners are twins. Monsters like the 777 and A330 have
huge vertical stabilizers to account for an engine failure on takeoff. Although
such failures are increasingly rare, pilots must train and refresh for the
eventuality. This is not done with passengers on board, and is mainly done in a
simulator for cost reasons."

AGAIN with the snipping, Mx. AGAIN what I said, and to be taken as a whole: "Of
course they do. Engines can fail at critical points in the flight such as
immediately prior to or just after takeoff. Airspeed is low and yaw control is
poor. The aircraft must be controlled precisely and applicable procedures for
the aircraft performed (fuel cutoff, fire check, extinguish, checklists, etc.).

Engines can also be volluntarilly shut down in flight if the engine condition
warrants. (temps, vibration, other problems).
This has its own checklists as well as logistical consequences. The training
for this is as much the immediate as well as planning and strategizing what to
do next. All of this requires training and refresher courses. "

 

I already did.

 

Sigh. See "and better" above. Nanosecond accuracy has also been available, at
higher cost, for just as long.

Center stripe of the runway is not a requirement of CAT IIIc landing systems, as
desirable an objective as it may be. CAT IIIc has been available in commercial
aviation for over two decades using ILS and INS. CAT IIIc currently does not
use GPS at all, but LAAS will get their eventually, while requiring INS, as it
does today.

There is no dependance on GPS in aviation that will or can prevent a very easy
and safe landing using ILS even if that requires, at worst, changing to another
runway or airport.

You're way out of your shallow depth on this Mx.

 

Specifically?

 

Juergen, do you use a gps receiver yourself?
-Sam

 

No--the Internet backbone in the US was, in part, subsidized by
my government with my taxes.

 

The Alaska CAPSTONE project has resulted in the approval of sole means
for other than just strictly enroute oceanic phase of of flight.

Reference is SFAR 97 which may be found at:

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-IMPACT/2003/March/Day-21/i6749.htm
Regards,
Jon

 

The EU has decided that it's worth the cost.

 

Big deal, go fer it!

 

My point is that the difference is three orders of magnitude, which is
not negligeable.

 

It is also told what to do by Congress, and it gets its resources from
Congress as well.

Both the President and Congress are elected officials.

Their superiors follow the instructions given to them by officials
elected by people just like me.

Congress can move pretty fast when it has to.

Congress has oversight over everything.

What you're suggesting is treason.

 

Many parties in the Pentagon are freeloaders, and many outside the
Pentagon are paying customers.

When did the President join the army?

 

I wasn't there. They used GPS gear at the surface, of course.

They used GPS as well, which is one reason why they managed to dig the
tunnels so accurately. This was not top secret.

Sure, but calling it something euphemistic doesn't change the reality.

I don't have to sell it to the Pentagon. It's already the reality. It
isn't necessary to persuade anyone in the Pentagon.

It's a joint venture now, civilian and military.

I don't want Congress to do that. GPS would be far less reliable in
private hands. But the point was that Congress decides.

Well, if people in the Pentagon are willing to go to prison for treason,
I suppose they could have their fun briefly.

Most people in the Pentagon, however, are not traitors to their country.

It would be exactly the same. If Wal-Mart owned GPS, it would be much
worse.

It's a fantasy.

You can _tell_ the military to assist civilians, and then it cannot
decline the order.

 

They used GPS units at the surface.

 

Not immediately, but within four years. Congress can move faster,
though.

 

Easily. The drawbacks of shutting off GPS are easy to identify and
quantify. The advantages--if any--are completely unknown.