GPS World: USNO's Fountain: Time at 100 Trillionths of a Second

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sam Wormley
  • Start date Start date
On Jan 28, 9:03 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:
Hmmm... It is your wish that the lousy application note [...]

No, homeslice.

Hmmm... Homeslice? Is that a new derogatory term?
It don't work that way.

What does not work that way again?
You don't get to cite a hobbyist writeup by someone with no expertise
in the system and then turn around and claim the DESIGN SPECIFICATIONS
- not an "application note" - are somehow irrelevant. It is
transparent that you have no support for your claims.

Whom have I cited again? What hobbyist write-up? Remember you are
the ones who brought up these lousy applications that are mere
hobbyist write-ups. said:
[snip the rest of whining crap from a college drop-out, unread]
 
Hey Koobee, I take it you've never owned a GPS receiver.

Four locked
and tracked satellites does not guarantee a PVT solution.

It sounds like you bought a cheap GPS receiver without additional
corrections from ground installations. said:
Also, I've
pointed out to you if the time up there is different from the time
down here, the GPS does work worth shit.

And time after time, your babbling does not amount to any shit.
Get a life..

Already got one. said:
get an education...

Already done. said:
read before spewing...

Also done. said:
Oh and you
appear kinda stoooped, like an uneducated hillbilly, going around
shrugging all the time.

Sam is describing himself using a mirror. <shrug>
 
Koobee said:
Since a GPS receiver can obtain the almanac data from
at least four satellites, the receiver can generate a set of four
equations with four unknowns. The unknowns can be solved to identify
the space and time information. It now makes no difference if the
satellites are synchronized with the ground stations as long as the
satellites are all synchronized which is much an easier task to
achieve.

This could be true in some system other than the GPS. But it is not true
in the GPS. That's because the GPS consists of MORE than just the
satellites and the receivers, and because the actual GPS has
requirements OTHER than just permitting receivers to determine their
position and time. The GPS has a ground control segment whose clocks are
REQUIRED to remain in synch with the space segment's clocks, GPS time is
REQUIRED to remain within 1 us of UTC (modulo leap seconds), and the
space segment is REQUIRED to meet its requirements for a month without
updates or corrections from the ground segment.

There is no way for a receiver's determined time to remain within 1 us
of UTC for a month without the ground segment, unless the much larger GR
correction is applied to the satellite clocks.

Note there are a number of GPS applications that ignore
the positioning data and just use the time data, and rely on
it being with 1 us of UTC. Note also that the GPS is a MILITARY
system, with military requirements and engineering.

In short, you are NOT discussing the GPS, you are discussing some
figment of your imagination.


Tom Roberts
 
   Hey Koobee, I take it you've never owned a GPS receiver. Four locked
   and tracked satellites does not guarantee a PVT solution. Also, I've
   pointed out to you if the time up there is different from the time
   down here, the GPS does work worth shit.

   Get a life.. get an education... read before spewing... Oh and you
   appear kinda stoooped, like an uneducated hillbilly, going around
   shrugging all the time.

Guys, why are you wasting so much to answer to this not-funny,not-
educated, stupid troll???
The best way to handle him, is just to ignore him and all the stupid
things he write... :)
No waste of time, and maybe that when he'll not receive answer
anymore, he will get a real-life :D
 
Strich.9 said:
On Jan 28, 6:17 am, "Paul B. Andersen"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/de05824ee65ab6c7

Anderthal, are you spewing nonsense again? Have you forgotten that
you yourself disproved GR when you stated the motion of the earth is
distinguishable from that of a star, thereby violating the very
principle that GR was made for?

Are you CrAzy, Strich--the relative velocity between on observer on
the rotating earth, hurtling around the sun, and a distant star is
measured routinely... and some measurement incorporate GTR!
 
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/geninfo/IS-GPS-200D.pdf

On which page is the Sagnac correction addressed ?

Sue...





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The ring laser interferometer has a laser process that generates two
frequencies of laser light.
In every section of the ring laser cavity, the light propagates with
the same velocity in either direction. For the sake of simplicity,
assume that all emitted photons are emitted in a direction parallel to
the ring. (That is in fact a huge simplification, but it does not
affect the content of this exposition.) The atoms in the laser cavity,
represented as grey dots in the animation, have a thermal velocity,
and on average they have a velocity in counter-clockwise direction
along the ring. The molecules in the laser cavity can be seen as
resonators. A passing photon will stimulate emission of the excited
molecule only if the frequency of the passing photon exactly matches
the frequency of the photon that the molecule is ready to emit.
I understand this but in space as a ring passes through a
gravitational field circles become slightly oblong and stretched even
at non-relativistic speeds so I don’t trust their accuracy since the
circular paths of passing photons will stimulate the wrong emission of
the excited molecules causing the frequency of the passing photon not
to match exactly with the frequency of the photon that the molecule is
ready to emit.
 
Tom Roberts said:
This could be true in some system other than the GPS. But it is not true
in the GPS. That's because the GPS consists of MORE than just the
satellites and the receivers, and because the actual GPS has requirements
OTHER than just permitting receivers to determine their position and time.
The GPS has a ground control segment whose clocks are REQUIRED to remain
in synch with the space segment's clocks, GPS time is REQUIRED to remain
within 1 us of UTC (modulo leap seconds), and the space segment is
REQUIRED to meet its requirements for a month without updates or
corrections from the ground segment.

There is no way for a receiver's determined time to remain within 1 us of
UTC for a month without the ground segment, unless the much larger GR
correction is applied to the satellite clocks.

Note there are a number of GPS applications that ignore
the positioning data and just use the time data, and rely on
it being with 1 us of UTC. Note also that the GPS is a MILITARY
system, with military requirements and engineering.

In short, you are NOT discussing the GPS, you are discussing some figment
of your imagination.


Tom Roberts

There is no way for a receiver's determined time to remain within 1 us
of UTC for a month with or without the ground segment, unless
the much larger upload correction is applied to the satellite clocks.

In short, you are totally clueless and a lying shit, Roberts.
 
   Are you CrAzy, Strich--the relative velocity between on observer on
   the rotating earth, hurtling around the sun, and a distant star is
   measured routinely... and some measurement incorporate GTR!

No need for the sun, moon and stars. We routinely measure relative
velocities of cars, baseballs, tennis balls, ping pong balls, bullets,
etc. What are you trying to argue anyway, that GR principle does not
apply?
 
No need for the sun, moon and stars.  We routinely measure relative
velocities of cars, baseballs, tennis balls, ping pong balls, bullets,
etc.  What are you trying to argue anyway, that GR principle does not
apply?

The ring laser interferometer has a laser process that generates two
frequencies of laser light.
In every section of the ring laser cavity, the light propagates with
the same velocity in either direction. For the sake of simplicity,
assume that all emitted photons are emitted in a direction parallel to
the ring. (That is in fact a huge simplification, but it does not
affect the content of this exposition.) The atoms in the laser cavity,
represented as grey dots in the animation, have a thermal velocity,
and on average they have a velocity in counter-clockwise direction
along the ring. The molecules in the laser cavity can be seen as
resonators. A passing photon will stimulate emission of the excited
molecule only if the frequency of the passing photon exactly matches
the frequency of the photon that the molecule is ready to emit.
I understand this but in space as a ring passes through a
gravitational field circles become slightly oblong and stretched even
at non-relativistic speeds so I don’t trust their accuracy since the
circular paths of passing photons will stimulate the wrong emission of
the excited molecules causing the frequency of the passing photon not
to match exactly with the frequency of the photon that the molecule is
ready to emit.
 
It is irrelevant that you are emotional and hence mentally unstable.
Carry on weeping, it won't change anything.


QED (and sorry to have offended you by diverting you from your child
storybook fantasy).
 
It is irrelevant that you are emotional and hence mentally unstable.
Carry on weeping, it won't change anything.


QED (and sorry to have offended you by diverting you from your child
storybook fantasy).
===========================================
You are not sorry, you lying shit. That professed sadness is crocodile
tears.
**** off and whine somewhere else that isn't a sci newsgroup.
 
Koobee Wublee wrote:

This could be true in some system other than the GPS. But it is not true
in the GPS. That's because the GPS consists of MORE than just the
satellites and the receivers, and because the actual GPS has
requirements OTHER than just permitting receivers to determine their
position and time. The GPS has a ground control segment whose clocks are
REQUIRED to remain in synch with the space segment's clocks, GPS time is
REQUIRED to remain within 1 us of UTC (modulo leap seconds), and the
space segment is REQUIRED to meet its requirements for a month without
updates or corrections from the ground segment.

GPS demystified:

http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=15475

Almanac data is only 50 bits per second. This data is chipped by two
frequencies each creating its own broadband signal. One is 1.023MHz
with 1.57542GHz carrier, the other one is 10.23MHz with 1.2276GHz
carrier. That is all.
There is no way for a receiver's determined time to remain within 1 us
of UTC for a month without the ground segment, unless the much larger GR
correction is applied to the satellite clocks.

You are the one who came up with such a requirement. said:
Note there are a number of GPS applications that ignore
the positioning data and just use the time data, and rely on
it being with 1 us of UTC. Note also that the GPS is a MILITARY
system, with military requirements and engineering.

To acquire one’s position, you need to find the following unknows:

** Your position on altitude
** Your position on longitude
** Your position on latitude
** Your time measured in satellite time

Four satellites will send you information on their satellite time and
positions. In doing so, you get a set of four equations. Solving
these four equations, you will get the four unknowns and that will pin-
point your satellite time and position. said:
In short, you are NOT discussing the GPS, you are discussing some
figment of your imagination.

Either you are claiming mysticism or know something that only the
military knows. In this case, I still call your bluff. As a
physicist working for Lucent, the odds are against you to be involved
with top-secret GPS development. Therefore, you to be demystified:

** FAITH IS THEORY
** MYSTICISM IS WISDOM
** IGNORANCE IS KNOWLEDGE
** PLAGIARISM IS CREATIVITY
** CONJECTURE IS REALITY
** BELIEVING IS LEARNING
** LYING IS TEACHING

<shrug>
 
---------- AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... -----------
who@2die4 wrote:
It is very sad that education cannot make mental illness pretty.Androcles wrote:
It is irrelevant that you are emotional and hence mentally unstable.
Carry on weeping, it won't change anything.who@2die4 wrote:
QED (and sorry to have offended you by diverting you from your child
storybook fantasy).Androcles, inventor of "=========================" wrote:
You are not sorry, you lying shit. That professed sadness is crocodile
tears. **** off and whine somewhere else that isn't a sci newsgroup.hanson wrote:
If "who@2die4" is an Einstein Dingleberry, then it's him "whowilldie4"
the pleasure of dangling in the cozy breeze of the farts from Albert's
sphincter. So, let him choke on it, together with Schelm Wabnigger,
both of whom just do not want to see that:
**** GPS NEVER NEEDED neither SR nor GR ****
Not for its design, manufacturing, testing nor operations....But thanks for the laughs, guys... ahahaha... ahahahanson
 
Sam Wormley said:
It's easy to prove (or I should say show) that Potter perpetually
fails to understand that gravitation as well as relative velocity
cause time dilation and must be taken into account. The evidence
is in Potter's posting record.

It appears that Sam Wormley's Pappy
taught him to lie,
or else he has a serious reading comprehension problem.

As can be seen, in many of my posts,
I have described the affects that
the Galileo Effect (Gravity-acceleration)
the Doppler Effect (Velocity),
and the Hubble Effect (Distance)
have on oscillators,
and upon the perceptions of observers.

"The evidence is in Potter's posting record."
not in Sam Wormley's parroting of lies, over and over.

As my Pappy used to say:

"Don't believe lies and hearsay."

"If you want good information
get it from the horse's mouth,
not from a horse's ass."

--
Tom Potter
http://tdp1001.spaces.live.com/
http://www.tompotter.us/misc.html
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dingleberry.htm
 
It appears that Sam Wormley's Pappy
taught him to lie,
or else he has a serious reading comprehension problem.

As can be seen, in many of my posts,
I have described the affects that
the Galileo Effect (Gravity-acceleration)
the Doppler Effect (Velocity),
and the Hubble Effect (Distance)
have on oscillators,
and upon the perceptions of observers.

"The evidence is in Potter's posting record."
not in Sam Wormley's parroting of lies, over and over.

As my Pappy used to say:

"Don't believe lies and hearsay."  

"If you want good information
get it from the horse's mouth,
not from a horse's ass."

The ring laser interferometer has a laser process that generates two
frequencies of laser light.
In every section of the ring laser cavity, the light propagates with
the same velocity in either direction. For the sake of simplicity,
assume that all emitted photons are emitted in a direction parallel to
the ring. (That is in fact a huge simplification, but it does not
affect the content of this exposition.) The atoms in the laser cavity,
represented as grey dots in the animation, have a thermal velocity,
and on average they have a velocity in counter-clockwise direction
along the ring. The molecules in the laser cavity can be seen as
resonators. A passing photon will stimulate emission of the excited
molecule only if the frequency of the passing photon exactly matches
the frequency of the photon that the molecule is ready to emit.
I understand this but in space as a ring passes through a
gravitational field circles become slightly oblong and stretched even
at non-relativistic speeds so I don’t trust their accuracy since the
circular paths of passing photons will stimulate the wrong emission of
the excited molecules causing the frequency of the passing photon not
to match exactly with the frequency of the photon that the molecule is
ready to emit.
 
[snip]

Here comes the chronic liar to lend support with no literature
references and no intelligent commentary.
 
Tom said:
It appears that Sam Wormley's Pappy
taught him to lie,
or else he has a serious reading comprehension problem.

As can be seen, in many of my posts,
I have described the affects that
the Galileo Effect (Gravity-acceleration)
the Doppler Effect (Velocity),
and the Hubble Effect (Distance)
have on oscillators,
and upon the perceptions of observers.

"The evidence is in Potter's posting record."
not in Sam Wormley's parroting of lies, over and over.

As my Pappy used to say:

"Don't believe lies and hearsay."

"If you want good information
get it from the horse's mouth,
not from a horse's ass."


Potter, GTR has directly contributed to a $30B+ GPS industry,
benefiting people all over the world. Aviation, shipping, asset
management, survey, mining, agriculture, time dissemination,
communications networks... and on and on!

Bluster on, Potter, bluster some more! Froth at the mouth! Whatever!
 

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